Author Topic: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~  (Read 27284 times)

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Offline Robert Lombard

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #90 on: July 02, 2010, 07:10:24 AM »
 :wink: First off NO PENIS shots in this post  :rofl:


For you that are not boycotting "Co-Ed Confidential:4Play" please be reminded that Episode 5 airs tonight on HBO/Cinemax

For you Adult Star haters then again this post will not interest you.

"Episode 5 ~ "How Minx Got Her Groove Back" - As Karen sits vigil at Zach's bedside, James and the students ready the bar for a benefit to fund Erin's dance performance, Larry gets better acquainted with Olga, and Ciara finally larns the identity of her mystery lady.

TONIGHT BRINGS BACK THE RETURN OF KAYLANI LEI as "MINX" who will be recurring in Episode 6 and 13.

Note:All cast chosen for this series was chosen and approved by the powers above me...

Thank you to the loyal fans of "Co-Ed Confidential" and also be reminded "Naked Lust" also is airing on HBO/Cinemax tonight starring Kaylani Lei, Leah Livingston, Matt Dalipaz, and others.

Casting Direction By: Robert Lombard



Always striving to provide the BEST talent for Late Night Cable Programs

Offline debbie

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #91 on: July 02, 2010, 10:36:34 AM »
Dear newood1, thank you for your long and thoughtful reply.

Perhaps firstly I should say that I was being sarcastic when I mentioned about male masturbation or gay love scenes in softcore. I don't really believe this will ever happen in softcore, except gay softcore perhaps. I do apologise if you are upset by this comment and feel the need to strongly object to that. 

However, what I do think is that the softcore boundaries have been pushed further and further over the years. We rarely could see "pinks" or "penis" in softcore made 15-20 years ago. It started to get more chances seeing "pinks" perhaps 6-7 years ago (partly due to the crossover of hardcore actressess into softcore) but still rarely "penis". Lately if it is true, perhaps we started to see some male penis included in a scene occassionally. As pointed out by Snakenaxa, the sex scenes still overwhelmingly favor the female body and positions that cover most of the guy's body and the incidental nudity, solo scenes and non-hetero scenes are all pretty much girl only.

I of course understand that softcore audiences are largely hetero men who favor lots and lots of "pinks". However, as I mentioned before, the male nudity is still not dominating softcore as you seem to suggest. If the boundaries have been pushed a little bit more also toward male nudity, it seems unnecessary to boyscott that. As I would appreciate the new "CO-ED" brave enough to include some more male nudity, I wouldn't suggest them to tune down the female nudity. I am not suggesting that softcore should now turn away from hetero men audiences and focus on other targets.

Well, I don't want to turn this into an argument so I don't think I will respond to this further. Anyhow, for those of you who have the access to "CO-ED", enjoy the show! For those who hate male nudity so much, I am sure you will still be able to find many scenes without that. So don't worry about your eye sight (smile)!



Offline Snakenaxa

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #92 on: July 02, 2010, 12:07:20 PM »
Then women started shaving and we started getting vulva shots, but we still never had any dick shots except for a handful of movies until the last 5 years or so.  Softcore became popular as something aimed at heterosexual men featuring plenty of naked women and very little from men.
Not really. Softcore was at it's peak in the '60s and '70s and back then there was usually little attempt to hide the man or woman's body and generally dicks were flapping everywhere. And Playboy TV shows, the only place I can remember pink being that common, were heavy on the male nudity as well(Including some things you said you would never see in a softcore show, as Sexy Urban Legends had at least one male masturbation scene I can remember and 7 Lives Xposed not only had several male solos, it had a few male-male sexual moments including a full gay storyline for a bi male character. And 7 Lives Xposed was very long running for a softcore series.) and it's heyday for new risque series was closer to the beginning of this decade than the middle. But I think the popularity of movies like Femalien and I Like To Play Games and shows like Lingerie, Sin City Diaries and Sexy Urban Legends shows that for the general softcore audience, male nudity is not some strong turn off, but just another part of the erotica experience.

Offline newood1

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #93 on: July 02, 2010, 04:04:44 PM »
Ugh.  Alright, Snakenaxa, I guess we're gonna go back and forth now.  I disagree with a lot of what you said.  The type of softcore I'm specifically complaining about is American mainstream softcore.  Shows like Co-Ed that play on Cinemax or Showtime.  Playboy is no longer softcore.

The late 60s had European softcore but no American softcore that I know of.  Maybe by 1969.  Are you talking about those nudist-colony type things?  I can't even take those seriously.  Yes, Europeans did have penis flopping in the 60s in movies like I am Curious (Yellow), but Europeans have seemed to always love penis.  The 70s could be considered the peak of explicit softcore and artistic hardcore.  It was still mostly European, and directors would often shoot softcore versions of movies with extra hardcore scenes that could be spliced in to release the same movie under different titles.  Often, the extra closeup footage of penetration or fellatio wasn't even the actors in the original movies.  Or, the movies would be straight softcore with one or two quick shots of an insertion, or erection, or some "naughty bit."  I've seen a bunch of these movies, and the nudity is always 80% female.  There is dick, but there are just as many closeups of bush (it would be hard to get much "pink" because of the um ... pubic hair style of the time).  I don't think that you would argue that porn, both hardcore and softcore has always been aimed at men, even back at the start and that outside of Europe, it was rare to see much penis in softcore.

I would not consider the 60s or 70s the peak of American softcore.  The peak would be the late 80s and early 90s.  In the 80s, VHS, Cinemax and Showtime were first introduced to households and there was suddenly a need for movies to fill up video store shelves (cheap with sex worked fine) and a market for cheap movies with a lot of nudity that could play late at night when lonely or bored hetero men were looking for something to do.  Porky's and Revenge of the Nerds gave berth to a million sex comedies that would go straight to video or straight to cable.  There was an explosion of "B" movies, T&A movies, whatever you want to call them.  Lots of boobs, lots of bush, exit penis stage right.  Then came the late 80s, early 90s.  You had movies like Night Eyes and all the "erotic thriller" movies.  I would consider this the peak, because this is when you had softcore movies with an actual budget - a budget that could be earned back with VHS sales and sales to Showtime or Cinemax.  There was an actual attempt at a story, an attempt at acting.  And a ton of female nudity.  No, not much "pink" - women still had "bushes" and a frontal closeup would just give you a good view of pubic hair and the bent over from behind shot was still relegated to Playboy.  Yes, penis would sneak in (usually you would just see a sock or pouch) movies like I Like to Play Games, Over the Wire, a few others, but it was so RARE that there was some titillation even for straight men - "Oh, my God, they just showed his dick."  At this time, Playboy would show pink, and minimal flaccid penis shots.  Everything was still simulated.  You had hardcore if you wanted it, and you had well-made softcore with a limited number of men's asses, let alone any penis.  I was a happy camper.

Then came the internet. 

Damn. 

It's been great for a lot of things, and I've jerked off to free online porn as much as the next man, but for a time, it killed any American softcore with a pulse.  Suddenly you could get anything you wanted - oral, anal, orgies, gay, lesbian, midgets, animals, castration, shit videos - in seconds and usually for free. 

Meanwhile, in the mid-90s, American indies and a new wave of gay writers, directors, and producers and female writers, and producers (usually not directors) would release more and more movies with penis shots.  Mainstream America got "Scary Movie" and "There's Something About Mary" which started the trend of dicks for comedy.  I was a teenager when this was happening and I still remember the embarrassment I felt in the theatre when I had to see dick.  Stars like Ewan MacGregor were more than happy to flash their dick whenever asked.  Then "Romance" came out and Euro Art Porn was born.  We had real sucking and fucking from actors and actresses we had seen before.  Jack Valenti died and now the MPAA lets pass things it would never dream of allowing in mainstream movies 10 years ago.

Hugh started loosening control of Playboy and suddenly Playboy TV became more and more explicit until it got to the point where it is today - hardcore porn for most of the day. 

How could cable softcore compete?  Playboy was going hardcore, the internet was hardcore or softcore for free and allowed people to illegally download softcore movies for free, and they lost the VHS and DVD outlet because Blockbuster first stopped carrying sex movies and soon Blockbuster will be extinct.  Suddenly even "art" movies were more sexy than softcore - you could see Vincent Gallo getting his dick sucked for real or you could watch a softcore movie or TV series with sex scenes featuring the same 4 positions, campy lighting, ridiculous music, and godawfully fake movements from the actors.  By the late 90s, softcore was a joke.  What could softcore do? It had to start pushing the boundaries.

Enter John Quinn. :notworthy:

First as a director, with movies like The Key to Sex, pink shots came roaring into softcore.  There was much rejoicing.  (Still little to no penis in basic cable softcore, you had to go to Playboy to see anything).  Then, when Playboy started loosening it's standards, John was making movies and shows for the company, including Hollywood's Hidden Lives, Sexy Urban Legends, basically anything that was awesome.  Sexy Urban Legends was 8 years ago and 7 Lives Exposed was 9, not the "5 or so" I mentioned in my comment you had an issue with.  Yes, Sexy Urban Legends had a tremendous amount of penis for a softcore show (including erections), but it also had a ton of vulva shots, including masturbation and some awfully realistic looking cunnilingus.  You mention that Sexy Urban Legends had male masturbation - yeah, I remember the 2 second shot of his erect cock before the actor raised his leg to hide it from view.  I didn't mind that episode because there were so many spread leg shots from the women, it made up for it.  I'm not a fan of 7 Lives Exposed, I've seen a couple.  I remember a guy jerking off in front of a girl on the couch who started fingering herself, but all I remember is maybe a brief shot of the guy stretching out his dick and everything else was hidden.  I was fine with that episode.  We got more explicit action from the woman on the couch.  Luckily there were no male-male moments in anything I saw - are you saying they sad simulated gay fucking and fellatio?  Sounds awful, especially on a channel dedicated to men.  If I had seen the episodes you were describing, yeah they would have pissed me off)

Anyway, Quinn went back to cable softcore with my favorite series of all time - Sin City Diaries - in 2007.  That show pushed the limits of basic cable softcore - extended penis shots in at least 2 episodes and vulva in almost every one.  The first episode actually had a ton more penis than vulva, but it was sexy because the actors were beautiful, the cinematography was beautiful, the sex was realistic, and it was balanced by the second episode, which had lingering views of a vulva and no penis at all.  Sexy, sexy show.

Now, we still have a crap show like Zane's Sex Thing  :roll:.  We have a show that looks like something John Quinn would do (Life on Top).  We have a John Quinn show (Lingerie). And we have a dumb show with (usually) great nudity (Co-Ed Confidential).  We have terrible, terrible, terrible features that pop up every now and then (how many movies can Frankie Cullen be in) that are embarrassing to attempt to watch but that occasionally feature great nudity and that (unfortunately) too often rely on former hardcore stars or hardcore stars on vacation for their cast.  That's it for softcore right now.  Playboy maybe has that Jasmin thing if it's still getting made - it doesn't seem hardcore, but reminds me of the Zalman King crap from Showtime in the 90s.

My rant started because current softcore was fulfilling a niche for a lot of hetero men.  Sometimes we don't want to watch people with great bodies but usually jacked up faces and terrible personalities fucking for real.  We'd rather see more attractive people in something that's making an attempt at telling a story and made in a professional manner.  We currently get penis in hardcore, penis in online ads, penis in Hollywood and European movies, and penis on mainstream cable shows.  In the TV shows and movies, we are arguably getting more male erotification than we are female erotification.  Softcore is that last bastion for hetero men, where the female form is the focus, the female form is celebrated, the female form is erotifed, glorified.  A place where the male form exists, but stays mostly on the sidelines.  That is what softcore has always existed for.  It has always been a male sex fantasy that women are welcome to partake in, but where women viewers will always be the minority and thus should not get much of a say on what is shown.  Women are simply not as visual as men.  How many women subscribe to Playgirl (does it still exist) vs. the number of gay men that subscribe to Playgirl.  Even this CFNM thing - if you go on a forum, they are usually run by men (either gay, bi, or in the closet) and almost every commenter or poster is a man.

So I got upset because we have
1.) Shitty features that are usually comedies because they are so bad they can't be taken seriously.  At least they deliver on the nudity - usually not a single dick shot, a few glances at vulva.

2.) Zane's thing - sucks, hardly any nudity from anybody, about 10 years behind the times.

3.) Lingerie - Glorious.  Beautiful people realistically fucking.  At least one vulva per episode and I can't remember seeing any penis, though they do a realistic job of fellatio.  I have a sneaking suspicion we'll get a few dick shots this season since that seems to be the trend.  Hope I'm wrong.

4.) Life on Top - Like the cast, like the production value, where's the vulva?

5.)  Co-Ed - Fucking dumb, but good nudity and a mostly attractive cast.

I was starting to really look forward to Co-Ed, but they're ruining the hetero male fantasy.  Yes, the sex scenes are positioned so that the woman is facing the camera, and the woman is the focus in the scene, but after a great start, the pink shots have disappeared.  It's leaving Lingerie land and veering towards Life on Top.  It's becoming "safe."  As the explicit female nudity has dried up, we're now getting extended looks at penis.  No fucking thanks.  I come to softcore and a lot of heteros come to softcore, so that we don't have to see penis.  If we do see penis, have the girl kissing on the man's thigh, lower stomach, or on either side of his shaft.  Or pulling it out and looking up at the actor and smiling.  Hot.  And make sure that you're still giving us our explicit female nudity.  Instead, Co-Ed is giving us dick shots for no reason and no pink shots.  Until we either have no explicit nudity from either sex or the female explicit nudity comes back, but the penis back in the pants.

Offline newood1

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #94 on: July 02, 2010, 04:09:35 PM »
Debbie,
Not upset with you at all. 

Offline Snakenaxa

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #95 on: July 02, 2010, 07:25:24 PM »
Ugh.  Alright, Snakenaxa, I guess we're gonna go back and forth now.
Nah, we functionally disagree on a great many things about the media and sexualization of the male vs female form in mainstream media, but i'm fine with that. Variety of life and all that.

Well, two little corrections:

CFNM isn't targeted at women. It's a femdom fetish for straight men, which is why CFNM porn is almost always about humiliation and control.

Playgirl doesn't have many female subscribers anymore, and pretty much started hemorraging them once it lost it's newness and hype, but that's more due to mismanagement and poor marketing than the base concept of visual erotica for women being untenable. The largest issues are reaching the targeted market, marketing the product well and perhaps most importantly, giving them the product they actually want. The boom of yaoi manga shows that you can get great success from visual erotica for women, but it has to get a chance to grow and expand within the targeted audience.

Offline broxbee

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #96 on: July 06, 2010, 07:29:32 PM »
I'm not an active member of this forum but I wanted to post in support of pretty much everything newood1 has said. Particularly the feeling that softcore seems to be going in more of a gay/female direction. I understand that softcore producers want to bring in different groups to increase viewership, but what good is it if you end up turning off your core audience?

Life on Top is a good example. I was really surprised at how tame the female nudity was.  They had a cast of Penthouse Pets who basically make their living spreading their legs for the camera, but instead of pink we get plenty of dick. Are they trying to get straight guys like me to not watch?

Another example: I don't subscribe to Cinemax but recently my cable company had a free preview. I watched a few episodes of Coed Confidential 4 and was very disappointed with the nudity (i.e. no pink/lots of cock). It's obvious the creators of this season don't have my interests in mind. Needless to say, I will not be subscribing.

Offline AllDayLong

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #97 on: July 07, 2010, 09:03:31 AM »
broxbee please! coed's by far the best softy on cinemax. i was disappointed in a few of the new additions to the cast, but i refuse to give up on a classic show like this. it still features hot chicks (the hottest in soft core) every week, the story lines are still funny, and the main kids can all act. i'd hate for this show to end on a low and not come back for a 5th season to redeem itself.

Offline Robert Lombard

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #98 on: July 09, 2010, 07:29:16 AM »
Episode 6 ~ "Girls In Love" Premiers Tonight....

Zach's awakening is marked by a profound change and he gives away all his possessions to free himself; Freshman Victoria, Olga and Maxwell consult Karen, Larry and James about their romantic difficulties; Minx makes James an offer he may not be able to refuse.


A NEW RECURRING CHARACTER appears in tonight episode... A smokin' HOT Blonde who plays the role of "Anita" and will continue in Episode 7, 8, 10, and 11.

Thank you for your continued support.
Robert Lombard
Casting Director
http://www.creativeimagemgmt.com



Always striving to provide the BEST talent for Late Night Cable Programs

Offline newood1

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #99 on: July 09, 2010, 08:09:28 AM »
Snakenaxa,
Isn't yaoi manga just comic books?  I don't know that I'd consider a comic book softcore porn.  Are you certain that the boom of yaoi isn't from gay male adolescents, since male adolescents are the predominant buyers of comics?

If CFNM is aimed at men, even though it is "dedicated to bringing visual pleasures of the opposite gender to women" and if Playgirl is for gay men, what is an example of successful softcore porn aimed at women?  Something that women actually buy/ view that doesn't just turn into something else for gay or hetero men to use?

Women aren't as visual as men.  If you are, there's nothing wrong with that, but you're in the minority.  Softcore porn producers should continue to cater to hetero males, like they always have in the past, instead of trying to find a female audience that might not actually be there.

It should be a rule for all mainstream softcore - things that show up on Showtime and Cinemax.  If you're gonna show penis, you gotta show pink, and there should be more pink than penis.

Offline hotrock

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #100 on: July 09, 2010, 08:30:48 AM »
It should be a rule for all mainstream softcore - things that show up on Showtime and Cinemax.  If you're gonna show penis, you gotta show pink, and there should be more pink than penis.

Word.   :cheers:

Offline Snakenaxa

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #101 on: July 09, 2010, 02:42:26 PM »
Snakenaxa,
Isn't yaoi manga just comic books?  I don't know that I'd consider a comic book softcore porn.  Are you certain that the boom of yaoi isn't from gay male adolescents, since male adolescents are the predominant buyers of comics?
Most definately women, yaoi is made by women for women(gay erotic manga made by men for men is called bara, and usually isn't translated to the US) and it's female markets in both Japan and the US are pretty massive. And adolescent males aren't the predominant buyers of comics anymore. Since around the beginning of the '00s manga, and especially shojo manga(which is manga for girls), have been the cornerstone of the comic book industry and what is keeping it afloat(and according to the people I know who run bookstores, generally some of their steadiest sellers). Traditional US geeky comics are probably still predominantly male in readership, but the industry in general has swung hard towards female readership.
Quote
If CFNM is aimed at men, even though it is "dedicated to bringing visual pleasures of the opposite gender to women" and if Playgirl is for gay men, what is an example of successful softcore porn aimed at women?  Something that women actually buy/ view that doesn't just turn into something else for gay or hetero men to use?
I've never heard of CFNM referred to as "dedicated to bringing visual pleasures of the opposite gender to women", it's usually pretty up front with the whole 'submission sex fantasy for straight men'(quite alot of it is actually rather BDSMy from what i've seen, spanking and strap ons and the like). Playgirl's simple issue was poor management, it wanted to hit it big and build a audience from nothing without actually putting any effort to building a audience. This doesn't work. Playboy and Maxim worked hard for years to become household names and had a lot of craftsmanship and thought put into getting them there. Movies and plays specifically targeting black women were considered poor money makers until Tyler Perry spent years building his audience and becoming a massively successful industry to himself. Playgirl wasn't willing to play that game, it tried to be a big name from the start and it never found a real audience because of it. It's general poor quality compared to Playboy didn't help, as one could actually read Playboy for the articles and get a reasonable good magazine and the photos are usually of the tastefully erotic kind you wouldn't be embarassed about someone finding out you like. Playgirl's articles and interviews have never really passed above mediocre, it's starpower is near nonexistent and it's never really struck a good balance between being gunshy about nudity and eroticism and being overtly porny.

But for successful appeals to the visual hetero or bisexual woman? Marketing is the most obvious, the usage of naked men to advertise in women's magazines can reach the ridiculous, pretty much if it can be used to hide a naked guy's crotch in a ad it has been. Even moreso outside the US, I was surprised at how much male nudity was used in advertising stuff to women while visiting Britain, Europe and New Zealand(the funniest being a ad for cookware in a houseware store which was a naked guy cooking with them). True Blood's megasuccess would be another example. Queer As Folk's primary audience, both the UK and US versions, was straight women tuning in for the guy-on-guy. Also Dante's Cove and the Lair from what i've read as well.

Erotica for women is a gradually growing and expanding market, but women are much, much, much more divided generationally on sexuality and it's expression than men are. I'm routinely shocked by how open my younger sister is about her sexual desires and how even her male peers seem accepting of attractions and desires that would have gotten a girl considered immoral, weird or slutty in my time as a teen. And my mother felt the same about me. But it is steadily building and media is starting to realize women like stuff that makes them wet as much as guys like things that make them hard, and the market has become increasingly adjusted to take advantage of the new demographic.

I could go further into it, but i'd probably get more Women's Studies jargontastic until i'm totally undecipherable.
Quote
It should be a rule for all mainstream softcore - things that show up on Showtime and Cinemax.  If you're gonna show penis, you gotta show pink, and there should be more pink than penis.
I generally agree, though I do think the reactions are trending towards the silly. Like broxbee's reaction to Life on Top. You have 2-3 times you see half a penis from a sideways angle half blocked by the guy's leg and that is lots of dick. You have a girl with her legs splayed up and open during a lesbian scene for a good while and it's no pink. I have never outside of gay hardcore seen a guy with his legs splayed up and open, and certainly it's one of the most explicit shots you get to see in softcore outside of the middlecore stuff Playboy used to do. And given you usually get a milisecond or two of penis at best, I doubt they're targeting gay men or straight women with it. Most likely they're just not bothering with editing as much to get rid of the wang as before(that Life on Top's penis was almost entirely incidental 'the guy's penis falls into frame while changing position' would seem to suggest that. Almost all pink i've seen in softcore has been very deliberate and focused in on.).

Offline debbie

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #102 on: July 10, 2010, 01:46:59 AM »
Thank you Snakenaxa for your insightful reply. It is like taking a course in 'History of female erotica' (smile)!

May I just add that Seth Gamble, Levi Steele and Chris Johnson are hardcore porn actors so I guess it is less a problem for them to show penis more extensively. Brad Bufanda and Brandon Ruckdashel are not hardcore actors. This is why you sometimes don't even see their butts in a 4-minutes sex scene, let alone to say penis. Their amount of nudity is pretty much as little as in the previous season. Kevin Patrick is the only surprise here who has shown more nudity than before but he hasn't done hardcore as far as I am aware of. My point is: a bit more male nudity in this season might be partly related to that they brought in more male hardcore actors to the show (well, no judgement on whether this is a good thing or bad thing).

A polite suggestion: newood1, if you are very interested in discussing male vs female nudity in softcore, why don't you start a new thread. I think the topic is interesting but it is not fair to hijack this thread further. It will also bring the attention of other members who might be interested to join in the discussion since they might not be aware of what's going on in this thread. Anyway, it is up to you.




Offline Shogun

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #103 on: July 10, 2010, 02:50:20 PM »
Softcore Porn = Serious Business.

Offline CoedZach

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Re: "CO-ED CONFIDENTIAL" ~ SEASON 4 ~
« Reply #104 on: July 13, 2010, 01:50:29 PM »
Softcore Porn = Serious Business.

lol, no kidding.   Quite a discussion on this board.   I can tell you it was as much of a surprise for us on set when they asked for it as it was for you watching it.
"That's Kinky... I like it!"

"Laughing drunk girls with boobs!!"